Matthew Bourne on Swan Lake: we’re still talking about it 30 years on

Sir Matthew Bourne is eagerly describing the importance of telling a story through dance. “I don’t believe in scenarios in programmes. I want people to go on the journey of the piece without knowing what’s going to happen next. It’s like watching a great film – you don’t know what the end is, and it affects you. Why should dance be any different? I’m really against you having to have read it all before you watch it.

“My premise, when making a piece,” he continues, “is that someone is watching while knowing nothing about it. The curtain goes up and it’s my job to tell them a story that they can follow, or that will fire their imagination.”

We are here to discuss the revival of his Swan Lake almost 30 years after it premiered. He explains, “The idea of a Swan Lake with male swans popped into my head years before I had even started training. It was just from watching the ballet,” and he concedes, “I did see it a lot!”

He elaborates, “It was the first ballet I ever saw and I was already 18. I came to dance late. I figured if I was going to try ballet, I should go and see a famous one. Years before I got into training at the Laban at 22, I was a massive dance-goer and saw everything many times, with lots of different casts.”

His thoughts began germinating after seeing Anthony Dowell and Natalia Makarova on video in a Royal Ballet production of Swan Lake in the early 1980s. “I watched it again and again,” he says enthusiastically. “I remember thinking: this prince is always saying no, he will never get married unless it’s for true love. And the Queen’s constantly trying to marry him off. I thought, what’s going on here? I never believed I would have the inclination or possibility of putting on a full-length ballet.”

In 1987, Bourne founded Adventures in Motion Pictures and in 1992 was commissioned by Opera North to create a new Nutcracker as part of a double bill at the Edinburgh Festival. “I had never dreamt of taking on one of the ballet classics. Why would I? We were a company of six dancers! We had a quirky reputation, doing small and mid-scale touring. And we were happy doing that.”

Changes were afoot, he explains. “We received this commission with a big budget to expand the company. The idea of telling a story with a piece of music that was actually written to tell a story, was very, very appealing. Nutcracker! was deemed to be interesting and somewhat of a success in Edinburgh and talks started about doing another one. Swan Lake was the one I wanted to do.” He acknowledges that, “It was an enormous leap of faith by the Arts Council to give us the money for a project. And another leap for Sadler’s Wells to book it for two and a half weeks.”

Bourne went back to his early thoughts, and ideas began to re-emerge, particularly about the implications of the story if they were to change the gender of the swans. “We had to think about a contemporary Royal prince and his behaviour which was in the newspapers every day at that time, with Charles, Diana, Camilla and Fergie. All the characters seemed to be in our piece. I thought if anyone wrote anything about it, it would be: shock horror – Prince Charles in gay ballet – that would be the scandal. But no one mentioned it!”

Although Bourne was unaware at the time, Adam Cooper, who was to be Bourne’s original Swan/Stranger went to see a performance of Highland Fling (Bourne’s version of La Sylphide) and expressed an interest in working together.

“Adam made a big difference to the direction the piece went in,” Bourne relates. “Almost like a creature from another world! I’d seen him do quite a lot with the Royal Ballet and knew he was a brilliant presence on stage, but I wanted to make it worthwhile for him, having made this big decision to come to us. It must have been quite scary for him. I approached it with a bit more seriousness. Not that I ever intended it to be funny all the way through – you can’t do a two-and-a-half hour piece of laughs. It has to have passion and a heart to it. But he pushed me in that direction because he so wanted it to be worthy of his decision.

“I had to go into the office at the Royal Opera House to ask Anthony Dowell’s permission,” Bourne recalls. “He looked a bit doubtful as he asked, ‘So you want Adam to be the Swan?’ I said yes and he asked, ‘Is there still a Prince?’ When I nodded, he sort of looked sideways and said, ‘Oh dear…’ But he was very gracious and later said to me he would love to have done it himself.”

I’m curious to know how nervous Bourne was about its reception. “There was a lot of talk about it before the first night. Lots of people saying I wasn’t the right person to be doing a new Swan Lake, it’s just going to be a silly send up. I think people truly could not imagine what a male swan would look like. The image of the female ballerina was so embedded culturally. I think they half-expected the men in Act 2 to come on in tutus, in drag. We didn’t feel confident that it was going to be successful, but we did feel it was going to be interesting. We couldn’t have predicted where it went to. It was terrifying! There was a lot riding on it. I remember being frozen with fear, barely able to speak. It was an extraordinary night! And then the image of Adam’s first entrance was just so surprising.”

I can’t resist reminding him how sexy Cooper was. “I think horny is a good word to describe him!” There’s no escaping it.

“Certain people found it difficult to accept Swan Lake being shown in a new light. I remember having a conversation with Beryl Grey who presented me with the Olivier for Best New Production. She was lovely, but said she couldn’t possibly come and see it because it was too special to her. There was a bit of ballet snobbery when people would say the choreography was a bit repetitive. Anyone watching a classical ballet will know that the steps are often repeated. I had the balletic structure in mind when I was creating it. The vast majority of audiences really bought into it.”

The success of Swan Lake put extra pressure on Bourne’s new productions. He says candidly, “The pressure started when we were doing Swan Lake in the West End, eight shows a week. No dancer in the company had ever done this. We had to find a way of dealing with incredible opportunities like going to Los Angeles and Broadway and managing the rehearsals, dancers, injuries. We were often uplifted by audiences and then came in the next day and had to sort out problems. It was tough. It changed our lives but there was a lot to live with along the way.”

“Thinking about doing another piece – the anxiety was like second album syndrome. Cinderella and Car Man were next. I’ve had opportunities to bring them back and make them better, to work on them and learn from what I’ve done previously. I don’t give up on shows if I really love them.”

I ask how much Swan Lake has changed since 1995. He smiles and says, “I’ve made changes this week. I always think, could we do better with this? I think it’s a particularly British thing. It’s about improvement. For me, it’s about ownership from the dancers, but also what I’ve learnt from audiences, what they need and enjoy. We need to have an openness to the people we’re working with because they’re all going to be different.”

Bourne never thought the production would be revived as much as it has been. “In 2000 we did a season at the Dominion and on the poster we put: Last time ever in London. We thought everyone had seen it – not true! We’ve discovered that the more you bring works back, the more popular they become.”

We return to the topic of storytelling and he gives me an example of reacting to the drama on stage. “Take Act 4 – the swans are around the bed. If someone asked me what happens, I would tie myself in knots trying to make it sound sensible. It’s crazy what happens on stage. I can’t put it into words but people end up crying. It’s because it affects you personally. That’s what dance can do so brilliantly and why people find themselves getting emotional. It goes to a deeper place. It shouldn’t be put into words. It affects you in a visceral way.”

Will Bourne be creating any new works soon? “I don’t know,” he replies. “I’m not searching for something, but if it comes it will be a natural thing. I always say I’m boringly content with what I’ve done! And I love having a company. That’s my job, nurturing dancers and we have this roster of shows in which to do so.

“I have been really lucky and ticked off a lot of the things I’ve wanted to do. Very few people get the chance to do that, and they’ve all been passion projects: Cinderella, The Red Shoes, Edward Scissorhands. It needs to be special. Never do anything just to fill a gap.

“A lovely thing has happened over the years. It’s enough for audiences to know that it’s us, even if they don’t know the piece. They’ll still come. The loyalty is heartwarming.”

Matthew Bourne’s Swan Lake tours from 11th November 2024.